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Mistborn discussion Books 1-3 *Spoiler filled*

Mistborn discussion Books 1-3 *Spoiler filled* – August 15, 2008 3:48 PM (edited 8/15/08 11:48 AM)
Debonair (259 posts) Lurker Extraordinaire
Rating: Not Rated
Figured as some of you have read this, others will be reading it, and thanks to the wonders of e-bay, I have read it now. We could start a bit of a discussion on the entirety of the series, possibly to at the very least determine one of the few loose ends left at the end of the book(and that we are reminded of at the end of the book). The last 2 unknown metals. Seeing how everything seemed to be alluded to at some form in the book, There had to be at least 1 point in the books where an effect of one of the 2 unknown metals was used, even if we don't know what it was. And from that we can figure out the effect of the second unknown metal, even if we can't figure out what it actually is.

Re: Mistborn discussion Books 1-3 *Spoiler filled* – August 15, 2008 4:03 PM (edited 8/15/08 12:03 PM)
Talraen (2373 posts) Doesn't Play with Others
Rating: Not Rated
I basically had three concerns from the book. So here they are!

1.) Were Preservation and Ruin human before? It seems so, but what does this mean? Were they the original humans to hold those powers, or has this conflict gone way back and just never been resolved before? Why was Ruin a redhead? Is Sanderson saying redheads are evil??

2.) I have no idea what the last two metals do or what they are. We do know that they are external and affect allomancy itself in some way. Presumably they do something along the lines of increasing or decreasing the allomantic powers of others. Perhaps the former is akin to what Vin did to Elend, or what the mists did for Vin, providing power for other allomantic abilities? The other could be as simple as eliminating someone else's allomantic stores, a la aluminum, but somehow I doubt it's that simple. I could see maybe something like a coppercloud, but where allomancy doesn't work in the area instead of being undetectable.

3.) I have to say, some of the backstory doesn't really add up from what I could tell. I don't have any of the books here to refer to, so I'll just point out the most obvious logical flaw I noticed. It was stated that Rashek made those who assisted him in the early days into the nobility, and granted them allomancy. However, these things cannot both be true, because we also know that Rashek made the nobility and skaa physically different when he held the power at the Well of Ascension, which only lasted a few minutes, and that Rashek's companions were Terrismen, and presumably all Keepers.

So, obviously no Keepers were made into nobility, since we know they were made into Kandra. And we also know that the Terris people in general were oppressed, to prevent Feruchemy and Allomancy from ever mixing. But Rashek is described as hating everyone except his own people, so logically he can't have had any friends to turn into nobility when he reached the well. Perhaps the friends referred to are the people who helped him build the Final Empire in the early days, but by that point he had already decided who was nobility and who wasn't, on a physical level.

There are two ways to explain this, I think, and both rely on the idea that our knowledge of history is flawed. First, the whole thing could just be official doctrine and not really based on reality at all. More likely, I think, is that the idea that he made his friends nobility is flawed, and what he actually did was make his friends Mistborn. Because the beads of Allomantic power were at the Well after he used it, he could have handed them out at any time. So maybe he made some people into nobility, using whatever criteria, and then those nobles that helped him form the Final Empire also got to be Mistborn. Or maybe Brandon Sanderson is a hack, I don't know.

Re: Mistborn discussion Books 1-3 *Spoiler filled* – August 22, 2008 6:32 PM (edited 8/22/08 2:32 PM)
chaoscat (452 posts) Ambassador of Good Will
Rating: Not Rated
I'd noticed the nobility issue too when I was reading book 3, and I'm inclined to think it's a blend of your two answers. He obviously turned his immediate companions into the kendra, so we know they weren't the nobility. On the other hand, they only ever mention two pre-ascention cultures - the Terrismen, and the culture the original hero was from (can't remember names off the cuff, and don't want to go look them up). LR is only mentioned to hate the people who oppressed the Terrismen, so he might have had people from other cultures he could have made nobles. Beyond that, I think the steel ministry would have found it very useful to propagate the myth that nobles were old friends of LR, as it somewhat legitimized their position.

I was wondering if the beads that make people into mistborn are one of the two missing metals, but I don't find that answer terribly satisfying.

Talraen (11:16 AM): That, and I've learned to parse through Tozzi's contempt
Re: Mistborn discussion Books 1-3 *Spoiler filled* – August 22, 2008 6:40 PM (edited 8/22/08 2:40 PM)
Talraen (2373 posts) Doesn't Play with Others
Rating: Not Rated
Well, the idea that the beads that granted mistborn powers are one of the final two metals has a lot of merit. Atium was, after all, Ruin's body, and those nuggets were the solid form of allomancy itself, like the mists were the gaseous form... and doesn't that kind of make that metal part of Preservation's body? The 16th metal would then be an alloy of that. Of course, it seems the system would have made a lot more sense if this metal and Atium were in the same group, but they're not. Also, would Sazed have told Spook to try to figure out what the metal was, and would he not have mentioned it in his histories? And for that matter, didn't he explicitly say it was all used up? So while I think there's a chance the mistborn nuggets were one of the two, and it fits with being the opposite of aluminum, I find it unlikely.

Re: Mistborn discussion Books 1-3 *Spoiler filled* – December 25, 2008 4:09 PM (edited 12/25/08 11:09 AM)
Debonair (259 posts) Lurker Extraordinaire
Rating: Not Rated
Been reading through the backlog of Sanderson's blog and found the preview release of the table of allomantic metals poster.

figured you peoples might be interested

Re: Mistborn discussion Books 1-3 *Spoiler filled* – December 25, 2008 7:19 PM (edited 12/27/08 11:34 AM)
Talraen (2373 posts) Doesn't Play with Others
Rating: Not Rated
Whoa, that is awesome. Especially since it turns out that, as you'd logically expect, atium is not one of the 16 metals (which also means there are four extras... cool). Good stuff. Smile

EDIT: Hey, wait, this reveals an error in the book logic. Sixteen out of every 100 people gets sick, and 1/16 of those can burn atium - but atium is not one of the sixteen metals. So that doesn't make sense!

Re: Mistborn discussion Books 1-3 *Spoiler filled* – February 25, 2010 4:48 PM (edited 2/25/10 11:48 AM)
Talraen (2373 posts) Doesn't Play with Others
Rating: Not Rated
Hey what do you know, not only was there a flaw in history, you were supposed to notice it.

/pat self on back

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