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(KoD) "Let he who sounds me think not of glory, but of salvation."

(KoD) "Let he who sounds me think not of glory, but of salvation." – May 9, 2007 6:14 PM (edited 5/9/07 2:14 PM)
Airclair (1096 posts) Doesn't Play Well with Others
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You know it's funny, I've heard that quote many times, and it's even funnier hearing it said for the 2nd time here, uttered by Siuan Sanche, as her and Moiraine scheme to tie Rand to the White Tower by having him sound the horn.

We all know mat sounds the Horn, and we also know that Mat was destined to die and live again, twice. It's been a while since my re-read, and I don't recall many of the ter'angreal met that could perhaps speak to the argument that if someone dies, the tie to the horn is broken, but I digress.

I think Rand might sound the horn. Rand is the one most in need of salvation at this point, and Rand is destined to go to Shayol Ghul. If Rand sounds the horn, what with his pattern and Moridin's so overlapped that perhaps he is truly dead to the pattern, or perhaps, after he has died and risen again, wouldn't it be possible for LTT to show up?

Anyways I was just thinking that Rand is the one most in need of salvation, and yet, the Hornbound will not ride without LTT around (as Hawkwing says to Rand in Book 1, "You are here but where is the sign" or whatever).

Re: (KoD) "Let he who sounds me think not of glory, but of salvation." – May 9, 2007 6:34 PM (edited 5/9/07 2:37 PM)
Talraen (2373 posts) Doesn't Play with Others
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I don't buy it, for a number of reasons - some meta, some not.

First, the horn has only been blown once thus far, so the fact that it's linked to Mat has never had much of an impact, except that no one else has tried to blow it. That could be why it's important, but from a writing perspective, why go to lengths to mention that the horn is linked if that's never going to actually come up? RJ didn't need to use linking as the reason the Aes Sedai haven't tried to use the horn, simply because they seem to put all of their super-powerful artifacts in storage anyway. And last I heard, no one in the tower even knew it was there anyway.

Therefore, the only way I can imagine the whole "linking" thing ever paying off is if someone else blows the horn, knowing it's hopeless, and to the surprise of everyone in the know, it works. Could that person be Rand? Sure, but there are a few reasons why it won't be. First, the horn is in the White Tower, and Rand is pretty much the last person who's going to go get it. Second, we know the horn will be there at Tarmon Gai'don, but there are no prophecies linking it to the Dragon Reborn. And we also know, by Min's viewings as early as book 1, that Mat and Perrin need to be around for Rand to win anyway. So it seems safe to assume that Mat will also be at Tarmon Gai'don, and therefore why wouldn't he just be the one to sound the horn?

As for Hawkwing's statements, he made it pretty clear that they ride under the Dragon's banner, but not that Rand was in charge. They are, after all, an army, and thus they should logically be led by a general - something Rand is not, but Mat is.

Also, mention of Moridin is a MASSIVE spoiler, so I'm editing the thread title. Jeez man, there's only three threads here and two of them are about spoilers! Although I'm not really sure which book this would be considered a spoiler for, so I'll play it safe.

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Re: (KoD) "Let he who sounds me think not of glory, but of salvation." – May 9, 2007 7:12 PM (edited 5/9/07 3:12 PM)
Airclair (1096 posts) Doesn't Play Well with Others
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oh right shit, sorry. I forgot about moridin, my bad!

I don't have my book in front of me but doesn't Artur Hawkwing say "you are here, but where is the symbol?" I could've sworn he did.

Re: (KoD) "Let he who sounds me think not of glory, but of salvation." – May 9, 2007 7:33 PM (edited 5/9/07 3:33 PM)
Talraen (2373 posts) Doesn't Play with Others
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The exact passage that is relevant here is:

"The Pattern weaves itself around our necks like halters," Artur Hawkwing said. "You are here. The banner is here. The weave of this moment is set. We have come to the Horn, but we must follow the banner. And the Dragon." (The Great Hunt, chapter 47)

Hawkwing also completely ignores Mat, until he calls him "trumpeteer" (and Perrin "bannerman"). Which I guess could be used to argue that Rand is more important to the Horn somehow, but also implies that there's no reason Rand would blow the horn if Mat was around to do so.

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Re: (KoD) "Let he who sounds me think not of glory, but of salvation." – May 11, 2007 1:15 PM (edited 5/11/07 9:15 AM)
Airclair (1096 posts) Doesn't Play Well with Others
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How does that quote from Hawking tie into the fact that if the Horn is sounded by a darkfriend, the Heroes are bound to follow its call.

'you are here. the banner is here. the weave of this moment is set.' Does this mean that when called by the Light, the dragon and the banner must be present? He seems to say as much: "we have come to the horn, but we must follow the banner. And the dragon" what happens if a darkfriend summons them without the dragon present at all, do they say the same to say ... moridin/ishamael (k now I'm glad we have the spoiler thing), that would sort of make sense since Ishy always says that they are the opposites, the avatars of light and dark.

It might also make sense that the dragon has to be there whether they are called by the light OR the dark, and might refer back to some of Ishy's statements that the dragon has been turned in ages past to fight for the dark.

Re: (KoD) "Let he who sounds me think not of glory, but of salvation." – May 11, 2007 1:26 PM (edited 5/11/07 9:26 AM)
Talraen (2373 posts) Doesn't Play with Others
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Maybe, but I didn't interpret it as the heroes of the horn will only ever follow the Dragon. I got the impression that, in that particular case, the Wheel required them to. And that will probably also be true at Tarmon Gai'don. But I really have no idea. In any case, I seriously doubt any darkfriend is going to get their grubby mitts on the horn (or if they do, it won't work because it's linked to Mat, thus justifying that whole plotline), so I'm guessing we'll never know.

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